AN EXCERPT FROM THE SCRIPT THAT WAS FORMED OVER 5 DAYS OF TALKING AND PERFORMING

And I think about it and I’m shattered because it’s very vulnerable to take, it’s like taking someone into the caves of your emotional self as well, this just has a physical manifestation of where you’ve been with your experience. But it’s also good to detach from it probably when it gets a little too… you know.
And what if they don’t like it. We have a holiday home in Zeeland with my family, basically my second home. I went there every summer, we celebrated every Christmas there. We always went there and it’s a very precious place for me so I don’t take everyone, because it’s special. If you’ve been there you mean something to me. The place has been such a huge part of my life and I can remember taking my first partner there, I was like 20 and the moment was special to me. It was the first time I took a partner there and then he was making all these comments about the house being messy, there being dust everywhere. But you know it’s an old farmhouse, my granddad completely renovated it by himself, he made all the bedrooms, he made the kitchen, he made it like his house.
That’s beautiful.
With his bare hands. The fact that he couldn’t see the beauty and the history of the place, and then I never took him there again. Because he didn’t respect it, he didn’t respect, yeah.
It’s a heartbreaking thing. And of course it’s dusty, it’s an old house, but it was not not clean. There are very high ceilings, of course there are spider webs, we cannot take all of them down. And then moaning about the fact that it gets quite cold in the winter, so we light the fire place and wear warm sweaters and such. And of course he didn’t take enough warm clothes and he was complaining all the time.
Yeah this hurts. It’s a weird feeling. Also what you said earlier, it’s maybe also good to, hmm I don’t know, to be more selective is suppose, but also to let go.
But also to let go, because being protective is another layer of tenseness. And you know also being able to honor your experience, even if the person doesn’t honor the experience as much as you do. Because that should or is indicative of something, how they deal with that place. But it shouldn’t influence everything. I’m not talking about, of course you can always think of something, before it has happened how things should be or go. In the end, I also had a pretty funny experience with this taking a friend back home to Turkey. The first friend I took home.

I cannot understand the further two minutes, they evaporate into the voices of people walking by.

But yeah now I’m very here now. Usually with other people, but to friends my door is always open and that’s how I imagine it to be.
Some romantic thing. Now I’m very I’m securing this place.
Yes that’s what I mean by selective, I recently took someone home back to South Africa and it was very intense. I also don’t know if he appreciated what I was trying to show and it was like a similar thing, because of where I come from, it always feels a bit weird to say it but it is true, my parents where very poor and I really didn’t grow up with money and where I live on the farm it’s very basic and like just in the forest and there are so many insects and it’s just kind of like, it’s not this world at all. And it’s very, I went with a very intense feeling of “Oh No” now this person is gonna see how we just eat bread and butter and have to just like deal with insects every day. A lot of it went just fine but it made me think like, maybe there are some parts that maybe never will be seen and that that is totally fine. No one in the whole world is gonna understand what it was like for me to be a child in this space and they don’t have to!
They don’t have to, the whole point is this constant seeking for validation as if it’s only done like that, this person that I love in my adult life if they see the value that I have with this place than maybe I can take a big breath and be like: “Yes! It meant something”. It could be a holiday home it could be your home country.
They don’t have to necessarily see all of that to be in your life the way that they are. They don’t have to get every single aspect.
This is exactly what we’ve been talking about right? That there are parts of my life that I don’t necessarily have to share with my parents in order for them to get the full gist of me as a person.
That’s the biport process right? Like you try to bring the people from the past into the present and the present people to the past.
Essentially the only thing to remain peaceful in all of this is to acknowledge yourself and honor your experiences constantly. Even though you grew up in the same universe with your parents, that universe changes and expands and it’s okay that my universe becomes entirely different than it is to them. Because our experiences are not the same.
I maybe have a bit similar things, some things you keep to yourself as a child, growing up in eastern Poland, a small village. I don’t know at some point I also felt like how am I going to connect with the world when I feel kind of like secluded. Is it possible, I always felt a bit of fear and pressure. But then I felt when I invited some people who all of the sudden noticed these little bits, which made me feel like, it made me feel happy that someone also saw these small parts that shaped me as a human being.
Maybe it’s really essentially coming from a need to feel seen.
Of course.
Big time.
But it has also been useful for me, as you say this feeling of seclusion, which I think everyone has to a certain extent. But then to also come here, to come into this world, which is from my experience, extremely affluent.
What does affluent mean?
Like quite rich.
Ahh.
And to be friends with people who have a lot of money and me knowing that I cannot relate to that. I have no way to relate to your city, your upbringing, that’s quite comfortable, not necessarily luxurious, but comfortable. And than to, well first when I was younger I would be angry towards this, like you don’t understand. It’s also been really beautiful that we all have this feeling in a certain way, just different and there there are commonalities always, no matter what you ate when you were 7 or what your house looks like or how far your street was from the closest Chanel shop, I don’t know. I would say train station but okay. Haha well I don’t know, it’s just that you can always relate somehow a little bit.
It’s funny because they ridiculously opened one… A Chanel shop?!
Yeah! Around the corner of the street that my parents live on.
So apt.
No but it’s not because, but it’s funny that it came up and it’s true.
We live in a flat!

We laugh

It just popped up. The Chanel shops, it’s probably because of COVID, with these business guys.
And it’s stupid because no one has enough money to buy that in Turkey. 7000 euro shoes.
What a weird move on Chanel’s behalf.
That was a good one.
Maybe we can do a reading in the mean time.

Does a reading

Can I ask a question? In the last sentence where you say do you like me as much as I do? Do you mean as much as you like yourself or as much as you like them? As much as I like them. Ah.
Do you you love me as much as I love myself?? Well I do, I guess. It makes sense.
I would like someone to like me as much as I like myself. I don’t know. Sometimes…. Do I like myself that much?? Do I? I should. But not always. I suppose that’s a good starting point. Someone should like you as much as you like yourself.
Lekker, lekker, lekker. Ooh wow I haven’t seen that one yet. It’s the best tattoo ever. I really really don’t like the font. Hmmm.
I want my dress shredded and my life too!

We laugh

Such a good line in this poem. It’s a really nice book. It’s gorgeous.
Than I will read one final quote. I’m getting quite into this. Maybe I feel like I have done this to a singular individual but not to this group. And I’m gonna raise my voice a bit. Okay project.

I want to wake up in the arms of a person I love
And drink coffee with them on a balcony
That opens up to a forest where the moss
Glows green in the pouring rain
We are both poets
Or one of us is
It doesn’t matter to me what this person does for a living
Or who they are inside genders hall
Light a candle beloved
And lay me down on the forest floor
Am I your queen

It reminded me of your quote. How to wash a heart?

So what I like to talk about it the, cause we were talking about experiences of feeling truly sensual, what was the last the last time you felt this and do you think there is a difference between sexual energy and sensual energy? And maybe what I want to ask you what the experience was you went back to? If you want to share.
I think what was in my mind very much was when I went back home with my partner and we stayed in this little cottage that my father build and we were so like… we were traveling all day and we got into the forest and we were completely alone. We had so much energy in us from like being there together but also from our only selves and what led us to being there for the first time. It was overwhelming for me to be back and also we could feel, or I could feel how very much we were in tune with each other that day specifically. And we went to bed and there was just something in between us that felt like different from any other sensual experiences we had with each other. Probably because of this and it was excitement couples with extreme safety. And we were just being very beautifully intimate with each other in a way that was both super tender and gentle but also very active. I think the coupling of these things into each other is what made it very special to me. To not have an either or an or but to have an all together. I want to also share something that I’m not sure if I’m allowed to because it’s about someone else body. I think this is a safe place. Yes. But this was also the first time where he asked me to penetrate him. And I had been waiting to be allowed, because I wanted to for such a long time, because I knew he wanted it, I knew I wanted to bring this silver platter of pleasure to his doorstep in a way that wasn’t triggering or upsetting or making him think of things that happened to him in the past where it wasn’t a good experience. And I was allowed and let into literally be something that I wasn’t before and like this with all of this 10 years of animalism and craziness it was a very beautiful experience. I went back to that. Also cause you asked if I had ever felt like a dildo. And I felt like this, I loved this feeling of knowing that I had one job right now and it was to be. I AM THE DILDO. That’s all I am right now, there’s nothing else I want to be. Yeah just in that moment, feeling useful and having a use. Or being used for something so beautiful. It makes me quite emotional. It’s such a… I don’t know, it reminds me of my previous relationship with my ex. Who’s trans, and it was quite new to me, it was my first relationship with a trans person, let alone with a person who had a vagina. Before this I was always the person who was being penetrated and then to be given this kind of gift of to also penetrate, it was such a transcendental experience for me when I did it the first time. Like oh my god! I think there is such a beauty in this act, this very fragile, vulnerable act of penetration. Because there are so many cultural connotations connected to penetrating. It’s often seen as a aggressive act, to then switch that to a very tender, caring act and make it something for your own is really beautiful. That has been such a beautifully nice experience for you. It makes me emotional, like it’s so nice, it’s so nice.

Yes it was so light in a way, we were making fun of it afterwards like oh we are just two lesbians living the cottage core dream.

Hahahahaha

It felt good for the both of us. I think it’s like, I think you know that for both parties, I think that.

Whispers — so S. doesn’t want me to talk about this but it’s like I don’t care you know haha

No I’m joking I only tell specific people, so when we started having sex I think that it came up in a way where he told me that he might be into me using butt plugs on him and then he had a butt plug and we used it once. And then we were at my house and I had this UTI so I didn’t want to be penetrated and then we were using these plugs and we kept going bigger and all of the sudden it progressed into me pegging him. And it was such a moment, he cried after it, he felt very emotional. It made me think that it’s actually so good for people that have a penis, like that have a tool for penetrating, well okay if you don’t have a penis you can have a tool for penetration too, but you know something that is part of you. A bio tool. Part of your body, to be penetrated and experience that state of vulnerability. Yes very much. I also think so. It is such a vulnerable thing. Yes it’s crazy, I never really thought about it until I penetrated someone. It was like oh my god this is such a tool of power actually. Yes it is. And to use it very wisely, not to use it as a default. Like I was, you know before I was listening to a podcast at work with all of the men around me, I felt very devious. But in the podcast there was this woman who had only been with people with vagina’s before and then she started dating this cis man and they once had sex where he wasn’t hard anymore he was completely soft but still wanting to have sex so they just had sort of non penetrative (penis in vagina) sex with him still soft and he said that this was the most amazing thing and he didn’t understand why he didn’t do it more often. I don’t need to use this part of my body in a penetrative kind of way I can still receive pleasure without you know… It’s so important to queer bodies, to queer sex in a way. Even if it’s in a cis man cis woman heteronormative relationship, I think it’s so important that we queer our sexual relationships in a way as well.
To not just have a, well I don’t now a default way of well that’s it. It’s also not helpful for a cis-het person in a way, they also don’t necessarily receive the most pleasure by following the script. I even started doing this before, when I was only dating cis men, before I met my ex. I was already thinking about it in different ways. I think it ultimately resolves into better sex because we’re not, we’re working more towards what feels good for our bodies and what feels good in that situation and what our bodies are capable of and what they can do, instead of following this step by step routine of you know…. First we start kissing and then we do foreplay, maybe oral sex, to ultimately the penis will go into the vagina and we we’ll have like sex. And you know that’s it. I wanted to say something to like other what feels good. And have no current shame about it in that moment or to like associate it with you know. I read a poem/column about it and I still think it’s so funny, like not so much anymore, like when my partner??? Well I don’t know what they are at this point. When we first started having sex, and still now to some degree, I was or I still am, I don’t have sex with people unless I’m super comfortable, even if we’ve been with each other a thousand times, something stays on my chest always or it’s softly wrapped into something. And before people are alway like why, and questioning it and making it into something where I have to explain myself. And having sex with this person it was the first time where it wasn’t asked, it was like, it just felt like okay. This is not leaving and I don’t need it to leave in order to have sex with you. And there were moments where we would have the most amazing beautiful pleasurable sex with a little shirt and he would be wearing some boxers. We would make jokes that together we make a little outfit. You don’t have to explain, and feel good, and you will feel comfortable and do what feels good for your body. So liberating. Because then you can be more present.
I always felt that if I have to be in an explanatory mode of what feels good to me or not or what I want to be seen and not seen, then I have to somehow disassociate from the experience. I can be much more present if I don’t have to feel shame.

This constant affirmation…. I want to say something but I don’t remember it was something along the lines of building layers of trust and what feels good and than not having the least to happen in this specific moment and then also when the opportunity presents itself and you both feel comfortable that your partner than says to you now I’m ready to be penetrated.

Sometimes it has also happened when we’re in an act of something. And then something all of the sudden doesn’t feel good anymore and you stop. And that’s okay. I can also just hold you for 10 minutes. That’s also fine.

What’s the difference between sexuality and sensuality?

I was trying to grapple with it. Growing up my mother would always talk about sensuality. That’s so hippie of her. Yes such a hip artist. And she would always be like oh I loooove music it makes me feel so sensual and eating and all of this. And you know I get it but I also rejected it a little bit like ugh again. I think I might have blurred the two or might have some warped idea of the two things and their definitions because of this. So I might just take sensuality for granted or feel that hhmmmm yeah. What do you mean by that? Taking sensuality for granted?

Because it was so spoked of so much in my life the pleasure that I associate with the term sensuality seems like a given. Like the pleasure of you know listening to music and like feeling so geprikkeld by it and not you know wanting to fuck the music but being so aware of your sensory experience. This sense of embodiment. And yes now that we’re talking about it I think that this sense of sensuality is also something that is very much a me thing. Also just the way that I experience sensory input is very intense and I a lot of sensory overload sometimes especially with sound and with people talking to me and I’m always very hyper aware of the sensory coming from outside the world into me. I think I relate to sensuality with how I find pleasure in that by myself in my own body and maybe sexuality or sexual in more directly relational to another.

That’s super interesting. Sensuality is more about you as a person and then sexuality is something more of an abstract thing that happens between two or more beings. Maybe sensuality is more abstract and sexuality is more grounded into acts. Maybe, maybe, because you know if I have sex with myself it’s sexual and I am by myself but also sensual and it is also sensual when I have sex with others. But yeah maybe I, maybe I view sexuality as more of a practical thing, but also not. To dance. What would you say to your own question? I think I have the same, sensuality for me is much broader so it’s not only, sensuality is more like an energy to me more like a vague energy, people can be very sensual and that doesn’t necessarily mean that relates to sex. Sensuality can also also be, you know when I find someone very sensual that means that I’m more attracted to them because they have this energy that relates for me to self awareness, to being aware of your body and how it exists in a space and how others interact and respond to that body, that for me is sensuality. It could be interpreted in all parts of life. Sexuality for me is much more tactile in a way. Tangible. When I feel sensual, the last time I really experienced was when I was away on holiday in France and it was really hot and I was walking this idyllic route, I was wearing a linen thing or a shirt like this and I felt the wind going around my body and I felt the world around me kind of playing with my body and I felt very aware of the things happening around me, being very aware of my body, the smells.
The last time I felt truly sexual is when I put on a slinky outfit and I felt other people looking at me in a specific way. It’s much more like straight to the point. Still it’s so hard to define the two.

Hey we’re just talking about the things and the stuff, the things and the stuff. We were talking about what it would feel like to sit in the sun with my pussy. Could the sun turn me on? And would that be wrong? I don’t know. Should it be a non sexual thing or a sensual one. It stayed with me a bit this conversation about the sun. You know the environment and all of these things influencing you and how they make you feel.

Would you like to share. I recall two moments that were very important to me in the last month and the first one is something that I just shared with myself it was a moment where for the first time in a very very long time I felt so close to myself and also like yeah in this very sensual sense that. I was biking home, it was in the evening and while I was biking the sun set and I was just holding my own hand very gently and I felt it was something very special. The moment of intimacy with myself that I had never experienced before, even though I would know like how to touch myself, give myself pleasure, that was something that I really missed this very gentle, very important tiny part. I just miss it, I miss this gentleness that really kind of is close to my way of, my sensitivity to touch, towards being touched. I think… I feel that for me like this gentleness that surrounds and leads to any kind of very intimate moment with anyone or with myself is something that I really wanna nurture and keep in mind and never forget it again, with anyone. Because I missed it for such a long time, noticing that the things that are very gentle and very tiny and they are, that needs a lot of imagination and a lot of sensitivity, and first of all a lot of time and patience. Because I have this patience for myself but is there a another person around me that will have this patience? And that will be patient with me together.
I’ve talked to so many people about this topic, you’re the first one that actually talks about an experience with yourself, this gentle touch that you did with yourself instead of projecting it on, instead of talking about a situation with an other. And I think, I really love that. I am a sensual being.
It can come in like such different tiny situations like putting on clothes in the morning, like a piece of clothing, something that you feel comfortable in and makes you feel that you are with yourself that you are in yourself. I think for me it’s something very new because for many long long years I didn’t have it and I think the breakthrough was last year when I started to talk with my closest friend about the way that I feel in my body, the way I feel with someone else, the way that like both my sensuality and sexuality can develop and talk to each other. So I think now that I’m 28 I think that it’s a long time, it’s not a lot to have this experience to just discover for a year. But I’m very grateful for it, I found, I finally opened up to someone and I trusted, maybe it’s also because of the trust for the people that I talk to. That I found a new environment that step by step let me talk about it and think about it.


Tender Like...
Strong Like...
Hold me Like...
(Performance, 2022)

Is an collaborative ongoing research by a group of performers and friends, with the goal to deconstruct intimacy and find new ways of building fruitful queer communities through numerous acts of healing together. Using the mattress as a space of transcendence and the act of performing as a way to generate new knowledge, you will see a new body emerging from minds alike.